The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life’s Biggest Questions - David Benatar Audiobook

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• 
  caesar963
  March 14th, 2023
  

  

  Dave is what’s known as an antinatalist, believing that our coming into being constitutes a grave, irreparable harm, and is consequently always morally wrong.
  He has armies of happy kids (not).
  Some antinatalists take this a furry step farther, and hold that we ought to stop other animals from procreating also. (Whale condoms!)

  Essentially, here we have Emo “philosophers” - used to eat this sorta stuff up, I must confess.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  apnea
  March 15th, 2023
  

  

  caesar963 if David Benatar was never born you still have armies of happy kids (not).

  The description begins “Are our lives meaningful, or meaningless? Is our inevitable death a bad thing?”

  These are among the oldest questions in mankinds history asked by every philosopher & thinker since Sumer (writing) but it’s older than the written word.

  Your feeble attempt to reduce Benatar as a one trick pony antinatalist has been disproved within the first sentences.

  Perhaps the armies of happy kids (not) have a quiver full of legitimate reasons for seeking out the likes of Benatar?

  Boomers & Gen-X continue to dismiss younger generations concerns about the future. Why is that? Because they sold them out is why. Benatar does not dismiss them.
  ~
  Anyone wishing to understand why there is such great fear over this corner of philosophy or anything that reminds people of death.

  *The Denial Of Death - Ernest Becker*

  “The Denial of Death is Ernest Becker’s brilliant and impassioned answer to the “why” of human existence. In bold contrast to the predominant Freudian school of thought, Becker tackles the problem of the vital lie — man’s refusal to acknowledge his own mortality.”

  https://educationaudio.org/audio-books/the-denial-of-death-ernest-becker-2/

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  Hogweed
  March 15th, 2023
  

  Well said Caesar. Funny thing, No one knows anything about what what happens when we die other than those that actually did. After spending 35 years learning everything about this world and universe, I felt the same way as Mr Benatar for many years after college. Then in late 1990’s I started hearing a lot about people that had died and were resuscitated, they all had a lot to say about what happened to them after they died. I really think many more people need to start listening to what they have to say. I have done this for almost 20 years and absolutely believe they are all telling the truth. Ive read there are several million reports in the USA and many more worldwide. When you really dig in to what they say, its impossible to refute it. I like to say, people dont believe in NDE’s, until they had one.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  caesar963
  March 15th, 2023
  

  However, ap, he is an antinatalist, which you yourself characterise as being “a one trick pony.”

  For a depressive person, despair often seems “a clear-eyed and unfettered view of the human condition.” He’s thought this way since childhood.

  “P’haps armies of happy kids (not) have legit reasons for seeking out likes of Benatar?” - Do they? Seek him & other such out, I mean?

  While you’re contemplating Sumer, consider whence the simplistic expectation that life’s purpose is to be wholly that of uninterrupted, untrammelled happiness? Isn’t that a mindless misconception from the self-help section of the bookshop?

  “they sold them out” - Who actually inaugurated this sales process? Were we originally sold out by the Sumerians? When does the clock start?

  “Boomers/Gen-X dismiss younger gens concerns abt future. Why is that?” - Isn’t that merely another of your “feeble attempts” at gross generalisation? In my experience, virtually every human is concerned about the future, because we worry about our children, for starters.

  The fear of death is, for many, a childish phase, in spite of all the analytical noodling. Don’t be afraid.
  Also, don’t depressively rush to embrace emptiness either. It’s vital that we cultivate empathy & lovingly teach that to our children.

  For inst, ap, you told me that you couldn’t care less about other human beings being brutally murdered & maimed in wars (in the context of Putin’s invasion). You certainly don’t fear those people’s deaths.

  That is what concerns me about this move of wholly embracing emptiness, extending that outwards to all, and totally failing to empathise with the suffering of fellow human beings. You have to have the ability to contemplate “what if they were my loved ones? My children?” That will help you to finally think outside of the narrow self.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  AudioBookBay12311
  March 16th, 2023
  

  For someone who is stressing the importance of cultivating empathy for the younglings, and empathizing with the suffering of fellow human beings, I have two questions:

  1. Why stop at human beings?

  Are those who are forcibly bred into the world, put inside tiny areas barely able to move, fattened and medicated with antibiotics (to make such filthy conditions more survivable - but in return creating antibiotic resistant bacteria), transported to slaughterhouses to get savagely killed, drained of blood, and chopped up, not worthy of empathy?

  This happens to about 80 BILLION land animals and 1-3 TRILLION fish every year. These numbers are inconceivable and incomprehensible. In a single decade, that’s about 800 billion land animals and 1-3 quadrillion fish.

  And the most important factor is that the majority of that does not need to happen because the majority of this is not due to sustenance, but habit, and because there are viable plant based alternatives (beans, lentils, soy, tofu, TVP, mock products, etc - literally everything that everyone eats can be re-made with plant based ingredients that might not be exactly the same, but sufficiently does the job). Isn’t it plain cruelty to not do that?

  Teaching younglings that it is okay to kill non human animals, or to ignore their suffering, is the first lesson that is antithetical to the development of empathy. If it is okay to carry out such actions on those who are deemed so below us that this is alright, wouldn’t the first lesson taught, be that you can extend such treatment to humans who are deemed below us because of their difference in belief, race, religion, and etc?

  2. Why not have empathy for those suffering because of capitalism/the “free market”? (people often do not realize that the free market means that those with all the wealth, the .1%, get to control and own almost everything - they are the ruling class).

  Under capitalism, 9 million people die from hunger every year. The food is there, but it’s not as profitable to distribute it as it is for the ruling class to ignore these people. If other basic necessities such as clean water and healthcare are included, the amount of people dying because capitalism fails to meet their most basic needs, is about 20 million per year. In a decade, even just from hunger, capitalism kills more people than socialism ever did in its existence.

  You bring up the several famines that have happened under socialism due to a variety of causes, from early bad policy to natural disaster events, which is undoubtedly horrible, but that is only a minority of its existence. It was not a normal condition to starve to death under socialism as it is under capitalism in many countries. Meaning two things. One is that those countries would benefit greatly from undertaking socialist policies. And two, is that objectively, socialism provides superior outcomes to capitalism in these factors (when the development levels of countries are taken into account), and I can reference 20 studies to prove it. (It is important to note that nobody wants to repeat the previous systems of socialism. Current socialism includes additional factors such as direct democracy (getting to vote on policies) and worker co-ops, to prevent the same top-down structure that allowed state abuses).

  Let’s start with two studies. One: You can get the conclusion of their study on the USSR right from the horses mouth (you can also find the full study if you type “USSR diet CIA”): https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf

  Two: https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.2190/AD12-7RYT-XVAR-3R2U (titled “Socialism, Capitalism, and the Physical Quality of Life”):

  “In 30 of 36 comparisons between countries at similar levels of economic development, socialist countries showed more favorable physical quality of life outcomes”

  “All the socialist countries have initiated major public health efforts. These initiatives have aimed toward improved sanitation, immunization, maternal and child care, nutrition, and housing. In every case, the socialist countries also have reorganized their health care systems, to create national health services based on the principle of universal entitlement to care. These policies have led to greater accessibility of preventive and curative services for previously deprived groups. Expanded educational opportunity also has been a major priority of the socialist nations, as publicly subsidized education has become more widely available. Literacy campaigns in these countries have brought educational benefits to sectors of the population that earlier had not gone to school. While capitalist countries at higher levels of economic development have enjoyed similar fruits of public health and educational improvements, poorer capitalist countries seldom have succeeded in implementing such drastic changes in policy. Even in the wealthier capitalist countries, public health and educational policies have not achieved equitable access for low-income groups, racial minorities, and geographically isolated communities.”

  To get into the specifics:

  “Within each level of economic development, the socialist countries had infant mortality and child death rates approximately two to three times lower than the capitalist countries. In the low-income capitalist countries, the infant mortality and child death rates were very high - 131 and 25.7 per 1000, respectively”

  “At equivalent levels of development, the socialist countries showed more favorable life expectancy than the capitalist countries. These differences were largest for the low-income and lower-middle-income countries, and the differences narrowed for the upper-middle-income countries. Life expectancy was quite short in the low-income capitalist nations - 48 years.”

  “Socialist countries consistently showed much higher numbers of health professionals per population than capitalist countries at equivalent levels of economic development. These differences were clearest at the low-income and lower-middle-income level, for which the ratios were between five and ten times more favorable in the socialist countries. The ratio of population per physician in lower-middle-income and upper-middle-income socialist societies was comparable to that of high-income capitalist societies.”

  “Within each level of development, the socialist countries provided a higher daily per capita calorie supply as a percentage of requirement than did the capitalist countries. Upper-middle-income socialist countries had the highest mean nutritional supply in the world. The difference between capitalist and socialist countries averaged 12 to 15 percent. Nutritional supply of all socialist countries exceeded the 100 percent requirement.”

  “The adult literacy rate of the socialist countries greatly surpassed that of the capitalist countries at each level of development. Upper-middle-income socialist countries approached the literacy rate of the high-income capitalist countries. The literacy rate of the low-income capitalist countries was extremely low at 34 percent. In the low-income and middle-income ranges, the number enrolled in secondary schools as a percentage of age group also was markedly higher in the socialist countries”

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  caesar963
  March 16th, 2023
  

  What the hell are u on abt? That is unacceptably prolonged, rambling & incoherent.
  Honestly - capitalism this, capitalism that - it’s like you’ve wandered in from a 1980s dementia rally. “You bring up the several famines” - what? Who? Where? It’s a David Benatar bk, tailor your rants, & for pity’s sake - brevity!

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  caesar963
  March 16th, 2023
  

  Your wordcount = 639.
  Words on Benatar bk = 0.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  AudioBookBay12311
  March 16th, 2023
  

  Seems coherent to me.

  It’s prolonged because I copy/pasted the study.

  And the “you bring up” refers to previous conversations with you.

  As for not for talking about Benatar, this is because it was a response to your comment. Since you mention the importance of teaching empathy, those questions above are very relevant.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  caesar963
  March 17th, 2023
  

  “Seems coherent to me” - Yes, that’s precisely the problem. Neither coherent nor remotely relevant.
  “previous conversations” - The proper time to respond was then - not to attempt a belated effort at enormous copy & paste several months later. Not the purpose of the section.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  AudioBookBay12311
  March 19th, 2023
  

  My intention wasn’t to turn this into a hostile conversation. I can see how the opening line made it look like that. Apologies. It was to ask those questions above, on the topic of empathy.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar
• 
  caesar963
  March 19th, 2023
  

  No problem. The use of the term “the younglings” did have an air of mockery to it - particularly in the context of the proper raising of children, our most fundamentally important role as human beings, and about which I was being absolutely serious.

  The Human Predicament: A Candid Guide to Life's Biggest Questions - David Benatar

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