Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power Audiobook

This post has 17 comments with rating of 1/517

• 
  caesar963
  January 26th, 2019
  

  Fair, balanced and…ironic?

  Well, at least the age-old question has finally been settled by Mick, in a spirit of metaphysical humility - keenly able to see past his emotional feelings on the subject!

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  sn000m
  January 26th, 2019
  

  These is no god. Deal with it.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 26th, 2019
  

  Don’t despair sn000m, old buddy - keep hope alive!

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  Mria
  January 27th, 2019
  

  If you’re doing psychology right - it’s more or less scientific. Science doesn’t work with belief it works with knowledge. That’s why psychology leads to agnosticism, not atheism.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 27th, 2019
  

  It seems to be based on a fundamentally false premise. Psychology overwhelmingly leads to theism (I hate using stats, but 93% worldwide?). People discern their own existential purposes.
  The scientific method works within carefully circumscribed limits - it’s not possible to put metaphysics under a microscope. Any other view is a misinterpretation and blatant scientism. We don’t even understand consciousness, or have full access to it individually.
  The notion that you can definitively settle a question like this by perusing a few social “science” studies is nonsense upon stilts.

  However, I respect the effort to build a sense of purpose and meaning amongst people of no faith, against the challenge of a deeply nihilistic culture, characterised by superficiality and emptiness (whew, that’s bleak!).

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  JDestroyer
  January 27th, 2019
  

  jfc you people. Science is a process: test something under x conditions, get y results. Duplicate conditions, duplicate results. Anything supernatural is not reproducible under laboratory conditions. Therefore, the faithful say it is greater than science. It is the faithful saying “nuh-uh! Because I got a complete ‘F’ on your test, I’m better than you!”

  All your belief in “something out there”, whether it’s ghosts, Jesus or little green men, doesn’t make it one whit more real.

  More education (more travel, more experience) leads to atheism. Ignorance leads to faith. If you’ve traveled around the world, you don’t believe in anti-vax or flat earth. But if you’ve never left your sect except for message boards, you’ll have faith in anything.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 27th, 2019
  

  JD - Obviously didn’t make any of the colourful claims you suggest (the place is covered in straw all of a sudden!). Also, you’re actually affirming what we said; faith is a sphere of human experience which is not amenable to the scientific method.

  Your assumptions are a bit extravagant, however: travel, experience and education are just as likely to lead to theism as atheism. Such pursuits can also result in agnosticism, nihilism, confusion, or total and utter indifference.

  However, to definitively reject something you must first be thoroughly knowledgeable on the subject - rather than poorly understanding a smattering of casual prejudices and stereotypes. The internet is replete with such flatulent, fundamentalist anti-theists, who seem to be oblivious of, or wilfully misrepresent, every aspect of religion and faith practice.

  Who are we to foolishly dismiss or disdain Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity or any religion which builds community, enhances health, enriches experience, delivers transcendence and extends life?

  You are at least correct on one thing: education is a wonderful, all-purpose good. But only in so far as it is both broad and deep. You need to be conversant with both Athens and Jerusalem. Judeo-Christian values built Western civilisation, there’s no escaping that one. However, when was the last time you encountered a determined atheist who was genuinely familiar with the works of Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, William of Ockham (he of Razor fame), Lewis, Newman, Chesterton or Thomas Merton? Try to read both theist and atheist thinkers - then you can debate with a truly solid foundation, Grasshopper. Otherwise, you’re ensconced in the ignorance which we both deplore.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  redrug3
  January 27th, 2019
  

  As an agnostic I sure wish that a lot more people in the world were buddhists.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 27th, 2019
  

  Well, Myanmar’s Rohingya respectfully disagree.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  chrisxiii
  January 27th, 2019
  

  “overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary”? what evidence? Darwin?
  rank atheist propaganda!

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  Alt2010
  January 28th, 2019
  

  There is ZERO scientific evidence of any gods. Ever. Get over it. The MORE we look, the MORE we find evidence to the contrary of gods running around. Evolution is real, we evolved, not made. The universe is billions of years old, not thousands, the earth isn’t the centre of the universe, man wasn’t made from clay and women from a rib bone, there was no global flood.

  If you have FAITH a Bronze Age religion about a god that suicided itself for it self is real, FINE. But don’t lie and try to pretend it’s scientific, has any evidence or is relevant to the modern age. Really, if reality is too harsh for you to cope, I have NO PROBLEM with people hiding in myths and fiction, whatever floats your boat. But F- me, stop trying to enforce your BS on the rest of us. We DON’T CARE. We’ve man the f- up and understand death is final, not all of us need to regress to a childhood state to cope.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  Alt2010
  January 28th, 2019
  

  caesar963 - you totally skipped the enlightenment era. There was a time when the churches rules the west, it was called the Dark Ages. Western Civ is build on Roman teachings, not Augustine and the rest of your apologetics. Religion is a theocracy, we live in a democracy. Deal with it.

  The only person here that needs to read more is yourself. Put down your christian propaganda. The gods humans have made have provided nothing to earth or humanity, everything around us humans rely on has been created by science. Plastic, electricity, medicine, communication, transportation etc etc. Your christian god has given us homophobia, slavery, genocide, torture, wars and death. When you’re ill, do you go to a Doctor that has tools created by science, or do you go to a preacher man? Yeah thought so. BTW, if Chesterton and Lewis are the best you got, you got nothing.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 28th, 2019
  

  Hey Alt - I purposefully made no appeals to religious authority because we do not all share the same presuppositions. And yes, I have read one or two books! The point is: we should broaden our reading before we make juvenile statements of rejection. I used the frameworks and techniques of logic, reason, philosophy of science, psychology, theory of mind and the historical record. I’m also quite comfortable in this milieu as I used to be a hardcore atheist.

  The established contention is that the scientic method can prove certain hypotheses within narrow parameters. In other areas (metaphysics, for instance), it is wholly ineffective; it cannot prove or disprove such propositions. We believe all manner of things which we cannot prove. It’s not possible to ‘prove’ that we love our families. The validity of the scientific method cannot be proven with the scientific method itself. But, nevertheless…
  You’re contending against the reality of the Old Testament, whereas the Catholic Church has always taught that it is a metaphorical document.

  As far as religion being opposed to science - most scientific speculation, and the scientific method itself, developed within the Church. Georges Lemaître, was a Roman Catholic priest, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He formulated the Big-Bang Theory.
  The guy who came up with the first persuasive theory of the heliocentric model was also a chap who took Holy Orders - Nicolaus Copernicus.
  Furthermore, the observable universe can only yield up immanent data: the possibility of an external first cause could not, by definition, be refuted in such a context.

  I always enjoyed studying the Enlightenment. Interestingly, it too originated within the Church. There were many good aspects of the period, but unfortunately it resulted in the wholesale bloodletting and savagery of the French Revolutionary Terror, the Napoleonic Wars and the rise of nationalism in response. Some Enlightenment thinkers also gave us “scientific” theories of race and justifications for racial inferiority. Also, very sub-standard and biased historiography was produced during the period. They applied the misnomer of the “Dark Ages” to the medieval era. This was contrived because they wanted to establish themselves by delineating a sharp contrast with the past. It was accomplished by downgrading or eradicating the achievements of the middle ages. The simplistic Manichean formula of “light” vs “dark” was deployed.

  In reality, hospitals and schools were created by the Church during the middle ages, free of use. Literacy and Classical culture were preserved through the network of monasteries, in spite of repeated attacks by barbarian tribes. The university system was created by the Catholic Church during the “dark ages” - stunning art, architecture (the Gothic cathedral!), music and literature (Dante, Chaucer) were produced. Towns and cities were built. There was vibrant and dynamic cultural activity - two renaissances occurred during the middle ages - in the 8th & 13th Centuries.

  The concept of charity with no expectation of reciprocity, which had no pre-Christian analogue, was created and developed by the Catholic Church. Agricultural and brewing innovations were created by monasteries. Economic theories were originated by Churchmen. Catholic Canon lawyers introduced the concept of human rights during the 12th Century (from the idea of the dignified, individual human soul), and later, theories of international law (completely unknown prior to this) were developed by Canon lawyers in Spanish universities. The concept of the “Just War” was originated by Augustine and later developed by Aquinas, in order to mitigate the savagery of conflict. Civilised, and civilising, Christian ethics permeated the laws, language, literature and culture of the time. You would not have liked Ancient Roman or Greek justice or morality - they were incredibly brutal and cruel, with a wholly different and impoverished concept of human personhood. Clearly, although no phase of history is ever perfect, there was an abundance of light during the “Dark Ages” behind the fog of distortion, mythology and obscurity.

  On the political front, Iran/Persia is a theocracy. You’ll know them when you see ‘em. The separation of Church and State is essential. However, the danger is where people start worshipping the State. Atheist political ideologies, which had no room for morality or humanity, gave us the most murderous century in human history (a true “Dark Age”). Evil people will do evil things regardless the excuse they use to dissemble their true selves. The prism of ethics through which we condemn such acts is provided by Judeo-Christian objective morality. You don’t need religion to be homophobic. The atheistic Castro regime put gay people and those with HIV/AIDS into concentration camps. People who were ‘different’ were treated similarly by other criminal atheist states. The opposite of faith is not doubt, it’s certainty. I don’t have any certainty to give you - and your own certainty is misplaced, and not a little disturbing.

  Of course, I included eight names, not two, but it would be impractical to provide a list of all of the theistic philosophers, scientists and thinkers throughout Western (and world) history.

  Peace and hope to you.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  Mria
  January 30th, 2019
  

  Science doesn’t oppose religion. It deals with knowledge, not belief. And if religion doesn’t treat its holy books literally and doesn’t restrict explanation of the universe only to its religious stories, then there is absolutely no conflict between it and science. Many scientists believed in God, they just interpreted Him the way it was comfortable for them. Pantheism even allows for evolution :) That’s why agnosticism can be theistic, or atheistic, or neither, and why atheism is a belief.

  I would argue though that Enlightenment wasn’t a result of the Church’s works but of the secularization around the time of Renaissance. And due to this secularization, the Church lost its monopoly on knowledge and venues of thought.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  caesar963
  January 30th, 2019
  

  Good points as always, Mria. I’ll just add a few details - the Theory of Evolution only seems to be very controversial for Evangelicals, those who insist on a literal reading of the Old Testament. The Catholic Church embraces the theory and several Catholic biologists were working towards a similar understanding during the 19th Century.

  The Church believes that all branches of knowledge should be pursued. Yeah, I think also that the Church lost any kind of monopoly with the Reformation (during the Renaissance period). But the Renaissance (there were 3 of them, remember!) emanated from the Church and its patronage. It was fundamentally based on the Classical texts which the Church had preserved by laboriously copying out for well over a millennium. And the universities began by the Church, of course.

  Similarly, the vast stores of wisdom and research which the Enlightenment depended upon, originated in the Church. The rational approach to science is another example. I think many aspects of the Enlightenment were profoundly good, but other strains of thought resulted in great evil (The Terror, dictatorship and “scientific” racism).

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  noktop
  February 18th, 2019
  

  

  Modern day athiests are so cringeworthy the ones making younger people (gen z) turn to religion.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power
• 
  chrisxiii
  December 25th, 2019
  

  The universe had a beginning, and was obviously designed, with what science shows to be a tremendous level of fine-tuning.

  Design is an activity of the mind.

  Case closed.

  Adieu to God: Why Psychology Leads to Atheism - Mick Power

Add a comment